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您最近的系列重视石头的形象，在中国传统文化里面石头也是一个很重要的象征。在你的作品里面石头这个视觉元素没有特殊的意义和象征性的意思?
In your latest series, stone is another recurrent visual element. In Chinese traditional culture it has a symbolic meaning: does it have a metaphorical meaning in your works?
石头在中国的文化史里有很重要的地位，几乎每一个文人都有几块石头，有一个赏石的传统，甚至古代还有大量的关于石头的书，中国园林里也有大量的假山和太湖石。我有一些画里的纸盒子堆积的像假山石一样，它也是源自于对石头或者园林的假山石的关注。一些静物画里出现了一些小体量的石头，比如说太湖石。我有时候会去找一些这种石头拿来画，它的形态是特别有意思的。中国人对于石头“瘦、漏、皱、透”的这种欣赏石头的审美对我有很深的影响。
Stones play a very important role in Chinese culture. All literati used to have stones, and this is an ancient tradition. There used to be also many books about stones in ancient times. In Chinese gardens, there are a lot of rockeries and Taihu rocks. In some of my paintings, cardboard boxes are piled up like rockery and this reflect the emphasis placed on the visual element of rock. Some small- scale stones also appear in my still life paintings and sometimes I find stones to draw as their shape is very interesting. The aesthetic appreciation of Chinese people for the different kinds and shapes of stones had a strong influence in my artistic practice.
△ 黑色物体 Black Object，2023
布面油画 Oil on Canvas，40×50cm
最近画里有几个黑色的石头，是四川美院有一次请我去教学的时候，我在教室里看到几块别人做装置留下来的黑石头，就是把石头涂上了黑色，我觉得这个特别有意思，就摆了一组静物让学生去画，让学生从石头里头联想到山水，或者是古代的山水画的精神。它既是一个静物，又是一个指向山水的东西，后来我也画了几张，又把这个石头放在一个沙发上画了几张，还有一张把石头放大的偏抽象的绘画。
Recently, black stones also appear in my paintings. When the Sichuan Academy of Fine Arts invited me to teach, I saw in the classroom some black stones from a previous installation, and I decided to paint them. I also prepare a set up for students to paint still life so as they could visualize the image of a landscape from the arrangement of the stones, and they could internalize the spirit of ancient landscape painting. The final result was a still life painting with traditional landscape painting characteristics. I made several paintings of this kind, sometimes placing stones on the sofa or representing an enlarged version of stones with an abstract character.
△ 山石传说 The Legend of the Mountain and the Rock
布面油画 Oil on Canvas，40×50cm，2023
这个就能连接到我们刚才说的中国的山水传统，虽然是用静物的方式去呈现，没有去画自然的风景，但是有内在的影响。我一直有计划去画中国的各种山川，在中国，古代文人的必修课里头就有走访名山大川，要把全国的主要的比如嵩山、黄山、泰山、太行山、庐山等，几个最著名的山都要走一遍，去实地的游玩考察一遍，主要的河流也都要去，这个是古代文人的必修课。我一直想去做但是还没实现，一直没有安排上行程，那么我就从这几块石头出发。我未来可能会逐渐拓展到去画真正的自然界的山，现在这几幅画里的石头是一个以小见大，希望用微小的石头去触及背后更宏大的山水。
This can be connected to the tradition of Chinese landscape painting: even though it is represented in the form of still life, and it is not depicted through a direct representation of a landscape, it can still reflect this inner influence. I have been always interested in painting Chinese famous rivers and mountains: ancient literati, during their studies, were expected to visit famous mountains like Songshan, Huangshan, Taishan, Taihang, Lushan and rivers. I have been always thinking to visit these locations, but so far I still did not have time, so I started with the representation of stones. In the future, I will probably paint real landscapes and mountains: so far, I take stones as starting point to focus on the small details before engaging in the representation of the large-scale landscapes.
△ 仪式 Ritual，2023
布面油画 Oil on Canvas，89×68.5cm
因为在西方的绘画里，人物画一直是正统，是占主导地位的。但中国传统的绘画里，山水画、山水精神才是最主要最正统的一个主脉，人物画反而显得不那么重要。所以这几个石头我觉得是一个开始，通过几个静物化的石头、太湖石、小石块，未来可能会解决我刚才提到的那个问题：怎样将西方的写实油画逐渐的融入、转变，融入更多中国山水精神的元素，创作出一些新的作品。我可能还会用更多的纸盒子堆成山去画。
In western painting, the representation of human characters has always been a dominating paradigm. In traditional Chinese painting, landscape and natural settings play the most important role; humans are not important. So, I believe that these stones for me represent a good starting point: Taihu stones, small stones and rocks represented in the form of still life will enable me in the future to solve the issue on how to combine western realist painting tradition with the Chinese traditional landscape painting. Probably I will continue to draw mountains through the metaphorical representation of piled up cardboard boxes.
在您的作品当中常常出现一些古老的雕塑，这些年代符号是不是重视精神性以及歌颂中国传统文化，有没有别的比喻的意义?
Another recurrent element in your works are old and ancient statues which seem to celebrate Chinese traditional culture. Do they have any other specific meaning?
我刚才说大概2013年我去见了洛佩斯之后，他说我的作品很东方，我在比较中才能产生一个更清晰的思路。大概从 10多年前，我开始去欧洲，把几乎所有重要的遗址和美术馆看过之后，就在思考中国的绘画或者艺术传统。中国的传统美术史其实书写和整理的并不是很好，我们的博物馆里没有一个完整的艺术史陈列，所以我回来之后就想多去了解，在了解的过程中认识了好多画画的朋友，他们也喜欢搞收藏，而且也是非常狂热的，热爱古代的陶俑、雕塑、石窟、壁画。我认识他们之后就经常和他们一块去看博物馆和遗址，自己也做了一些收藏，画的有些东西都是我自己收藏的。
As I just mentioned, in 2013 I went to visit Lopez and he said that he could detect some eastern elements in my works and that through a comparison between the two artistic traditions I could develop a clearer thinking approach. About 10 years ago, I started travelling to Europe and I almost visited all the important museums and institutions. While being there, I realized that the history of Chinese traditional art doesn’t have a structured way of being recorded. In our museums, there is no historical approach in the display of the ancient works of art so, once I came back, I thought that I wanted to understand more and I started to have many friends who were collectors and who were very passionate about ancient pottery, sculptures, grottoes, frescoes. After getting to know them, I started to go often to museums and to develop an interest for collecting.
△ 审视9（细节） Looking Closely 9 (details)，2022-2023
布面油画 Oil on Canvas，127×92cm
通过这种方法也是在认识中国古代的传统，我从画这些东西开始，然后慢慢的看看能不能把一些方法融入到创作当中。我看到了一个问题，中国传统的绘画是非常断裂的，比如说我们画画的时候，体现不出汉/唐/秦代的气息和风格。但是我看毕加索的速写和版画，包括随手勾勒的人体，可以很明确的看到古希腊的影响。
This was for me a good starting point to delve into Chinese ancient traditions and to slowly starting to integrate traditional methods within my creative process. I realized that Chinese traditional painting is characterized by a fragmented historical evolution. When we paint, it’s difficult to reflect the style and the atmosphere of the Han, Tang or Qin dynasties. But if we look at Picasso’s sketches and prints, including the drawings of human bodies, we can clearly identify the influence of ancient Greece.
其实我们中国人对于传统绘画的认识是非常少的，所以我也在想自己作品能不能体现出古代的精神气质，确实很难。但是正因为思考这些问题，我才去研究这些陶俑，现在只是先用油画画出来，还没有去进一步的做更多的尝试。
Chinese people have a limited knowledge about traditional painting, so it’s difficult to reflect the ancient spirit and the atmosphere. Exactly because I have been thinking about these issues for a long time, I decided to study these ancient potteries. At the moment, I am still engaged in oil painting before delving into more experimentations.
How did you select the works to be presented at the solo show at Parkview Green Art?
观物的系列会有1-2副，《审视9》这幅也会参加展览，还有画石头的作品，因为展览场地等因素，大概会在十几件作品。还有现在正在画的也是纸盒子和仙人掌的一个组合。大概是这样的一个作品的搭配，它是相关联的几个系列在一块。
I chose few works from Observing Materiality series and I selected the work n. 9 from the Looking Closely series and other works revolving around stones. Taking into account the size of the exhibition space and other elements, I selected about 10 works in total, including some paintings of cardboard boxes and cactus. I combines a selection of works from different series.
您对这个展览有没有期待？因为芳草地画廊位置非常特殊，在一个公共场所里面，所以肯定跟观众的互动性会非常高。您有没有任何特殊的期待，或者您觉得观众看您的作品会有什么样的反应？
What kind of expectations do you have for this show? Parkview Green has a very distinctive and unique position in a public space where the interaction with the public is very strong. What kind of reaction do you expect from the viewers?
我是挺期待的，我自己平时也会做一些艺术上的普及工作，讲课之类的。我也是希望作品能够面向更多的大众，而不单单是专业的观众。我的作品的题材在大众的审美看来可能会比较怪异，它不是关于美好的事物的一个描绘，不是传统的古典的审美，它反而有很多的废弃的、怪异的这种场景和题材，但是我觉得这也是一个挑战。而且芳草地商场里也有很多艺术品，我觉得跟那些艺术品能够有一些互动也是挺好的，在作品的这个内容或者是它的当代性上。
I am looking forward to this show. I usually focus on the popularization of my works of art organizing conferences and lectures. I hope my works will be appreciated also by the general public. Some viewers might think that my works’ subject matters are weird. My painting do not reflect a classic and traditional aesthetic: my visual repertoire often revolves around discarded objects, weird landscapes and this is a challenge for me. Parkview Green Fangcaodi is characterized by many artworks scattered throughout the space: the idea to establish an interactive dialogue between my works and the existing ones is very exciting.
△ 观物系列展览现场
Exhibition View of Observing Materiality Series
我这次展出的观物系列里，有一幅很多纸盒子堆在一块的作品是新画的，是一个消费时代的产物，因为产品包装盒就是商业时代的一个很重要的符号和物品，那个作品也能够和商场有一些呼应和互动。但是我可能更多的是批判性的角度去入手的，不是一个赞美或正面的一个角度。
For this show, one of the works of Observing Materiality Series is totally new and is characterized by many cardboard boxes piled up one on top of the other to embody the symbol of consumer society. Because of this symbolic connotation, to place this work in a shopping mall is even more meaningful, even though very often the analytical approach in my works is critical rather than positive.
您常用“自由生长”这个词来表述您艺术实践及其背后的精神。您可以跟我分享这个概念吗?
You often refer to your artistic practice and spirit using the expression “Free Growing”. Could you share with us the meaning of this concept?
就是没有给自己设定一个特别明确的界限，不设限，希望自己的灵感和创作是比较自由的一个状态，不太去考虑商业，不太去考虑别人怎么看。这么多系列看起来有点杂乱，但是我自己觉得是一个比较活跃的有生命力的状态，就好像树的生长一样，有内在的规律。我接受作品因偶然元素或经历而发生的变化，不排斥它们。虽然我有一个模糊的艺术目标，但我希望作品的形式和内容能更自由地生长。未来的作品类型和画家类型我无法确定，但我认为保持变化的状态是非常好的。
This refers to the possibility of not giving to yourself any restriction or limitation. I advocate a certain freedom in the inspiration of artistic creation, without taking into account the market or other people’s expectations. For example, the fact that I simultaneously focus on different series of works might seem confusing, on the contrary for me is a lively and vibrant approach. As the growing process of a plant, my creative process has its own inner rules. My works reflect the influence of casual elements and of different experiences and changes around me. I don’t have any specific goal in my artistic creation, I just hope that the form and the content of my artworks can develop freely. I don’t know which series I will work on in the future, but I believe that keeping an ever- changing approach is a positive thing.
△ 生长 Growing，2023
布面油画 Oil on Canvas，120×80cm
What are your future projects?
接下来我会把观物系列做得更完整一点，可能会再画10多幅，甚至拿到户外去画。还有一个计划是古代著名的山水和河流，因为这些山是几千年没有改变的，宋代的人看到的山和我们今天看到的山其实差不多，我想用我自己的方式和眼光再画一画，看一看有什么新的作品出现，这是两个主要的事情。然后另外一个，我画人物比较少，可能未来更多的是从肖像和人物的心理状态上去入手，这个平时画的少但是其实一直也在画，但是展出的比较少，因为我觉得还不够成熟，所以大概是这么一个计划和状态。
In the future I will work more on the Observing Materiality series, I might draw more than 10 paintings and also focus on some outdoor works. Another project will focus on traditional landscapes and ancient rivers, which have been unchanged for thousands of years. The mountains contemplated by people in the Song Dynasty are actually similar to the mountains we see today. I want to paint them again with my own way and vision to see what new works appear. Maybe in the future I will also work on some works revolving around the representation of human characters through portraits aimed at depicting the psychological condition of these characters. I have been always painting some human characters but I rarely presented these works in exhibitions.
关于作品的解读 Artworks Interpretation
我其实完全能接受不同的解读方式，因为我觉得我提供的只是一个线索，任何人都可以有自己的一个解读。这个其实是挺有意思的事情，有时候观众或者是其他人的一些理解和解读反而能启发我，我觉得这个也是一个我自由生长的状态，互相启发的状态。我的作品不是那种主题性特别强的绘画，不是讲一个故事、不是传统的古典绘画、讲一个明确的圣经故事或者历史画，所以它表现的内容和它的可解读范围其实是挺广的，这个也是我觉得很有意思的一点，也是我们这个时代的美术或者绘画的特征之一，它不是那么清晰或者那么那么明确的。
In fact, I am completely open to different interpretations: through my works I provide some clues and anyone can have their own interpretation. This is actually a very interesting thing. Sometimes the understanding and interpretation of the audience or other people can inspire me. I think this can also be referred to as “free growing” and it’s a mutual inspiration. My works are not characterized by clear and strong themes and narratives; they are not classical paintings nor historical ones. The content is wide and can be open to different readings. This is also what I find very interesting, and it is also one of the main characteristics of contemporary painting.
仝紫云，1987年生于河南省。本科及硕士毕业于中国美术学院油画系。现为国家二级美术师，中国艺术研究院油画院研修班教师、课题组成员，中国艺术研究院博士生，中国美术家协会会员。
Tong Ziyun was born in Henan Province in 1987. He graduated from the Oil Painting Department of the China Academy of Art with a bachelor's degree and a master's degree. He is a teacher and a member of the research group of the Oil Painting Institute of the China National Academy of Arts. He is also a doctoral student of the China National Academy of Arts, and a member of the China Artists Association.
作品曾于中国艺术研究院油画院美术馆，中国美术馆、今日美术馆、日照市美术馆、浙江省展览馆、苏州公共文化艺术中心、宁波美术馆、江苏省美术馆、重庆市美术馆、美国加尔文大学中心美术馆，天津美术馆、北京观唐美术馆、深圳关山月美术馆、西安美术学院美术馆、北京中捷当代美术馆、东亿美术馆、西班牙M.E.A.M现代艺术博物馆、漳州美术馆、哈尔滨红场美术馆、保利艺术博物馆、嘉德艺术中心、Hi艺术中心、山艺术北京林正艺术空间、SKP RENDEZ-VOUS GALLERY等展出。
His works have been exhibited in many institutions including Art Museum of the Oil Painting Institute of the Chinese Academy of Arts, National Art Museum of China, Today Art Museum, Rizhao Art Museum, Zhejiang Provincial Exhibition Hall, Suzhou Public Culture and Art Center, Ningbo Art Museum, Jiangsu Art Museum, Chongqing Art Museum, Calvin University Central Art Museum, Tianjin Art Museum, Beijing Guantang Art Museum, Shenzhen Guan Shanyue Art Museum, Xi’an Academy of Fine Arts Art, Beijing Zhongjie Contemporary Art Museum, Dongyi Art Museum, M.E.A.M Museum of Modern Art (Spain), Zhangzhou Art Museum, Harbin Red Square Art Museum, Poly Art Museum, Guardian Art Center, Hi Art Center, Shan Art Beijing Linzheng Art Space, SKP RENDEZ-VOUS GALLERY.
作品曾被国家大剧院、中国艺术研究院、中国美术学院、江苏省美术馆、江西省美术馆、淮安市美术馆、筑中美术馆等艺术机构收藏。
His works have been collected by the National Center for the Performing Arts, China Academy of Arts, Jiangsu Provincial Art Museum, Jiangxi Provincial Art Museum, Huaian Art Museum, Zhuzhong Art Museum and other art institutions.
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